Ukraine: One “Regime Change” Too Many? – commentary

Ukraine: One “Regime Change” Too Many?
Monday, 03 March 2014 – By Ray McGovern, Consortium News | News Analysis

Unidentified troops march as they block a military base in the village of Privolnoye in the Crimea region of Ukraine, March 2, 2014. Russia’s move to seize the Crimean Peninsula brought a warning from Ukraine against further incursions. Ukraine’s premier said on Sunday that the nation was on the “brink of disaster.” (Photo: Sergey Ponomarev / The New York Times)

Unidentified troops march as they block a military base in the village of Privolnoye in the Crimea region of Ukraine, March 2, 2014. Russia’s move to seize the Crimean Peninsula brought a warning from Ukraine against further incursions. Ukraine’s premier said on Sunday that the nation was on the “brink of disaster.” (Photo: Sergey Ponomarev / The New York Times)

Is “regime change” in Ukraine the bridge too far for the neoconservative “regime changers” of Official Washington and their sophomoric “responsibility-to-protect” (R2P) allies in the Obama administration? Have they dangerously over-reached by pushing the putsch that removed duly-elected Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych?  

Russian President Vladimir Putin has given an unmistakable “yes” to those questions – in deeds, not words. His message is clear: “Back off our near-frontier!”

Moscow announced on Saturday that Russia’s parliament has approved Putin’s request for permission to use Russia’s armed forces “on the territory of the Ukraine pending the normalization of the socio-political situation in that country.”

Putin described this move as necessary to protect ethnic Russians and military personnel stationed in Crimea in southern Ukraine, where the Russian Black Sea Fleet and other key military installations are located. But there is no indication that the Russian parliament has restricted the use of Russian armed forces to the Crimea. [Read more]

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Comments

  • priya vattapparayil  On 03/04/2014 at 9:33 am

    Kindly unsubscribe

    • guyaneseonline  On 03/04/2014 at 1:38 pm

      Priya:
      You have to unsubscribe yourself
      At the bottom of the e-mails you receive is an unsubscribe link… click on it and it will take your e-mail off the list.
      I do not have easy access to the subscriber e-mails.

  • de castro  On 03/04/2014 at 11:17 am

    Why not seek a resolution from UN to have elections in Ukraine
    ASAP which almost certain Putin and Russia would welcome….
    The solution is not military more economic/political.
    Let the people of Ukraine decide in democratically free and fair
    elections monitored by the UN…..it is not too late….
    Why this was never implemented in Syria is because
    the circumstances were different …Ashad received
    Russia s endorsement by not agreeing with UN ….
    Vetoing any actions to remove Ashad …vi Iraq Egypt Libya
    military intervention ….now we see military intervention
    ignoring any UN s involvement…wonder why.
    Now that the horse has bolted the becomes more complex.

    UN needs to be less impartial and more democratic to regain
    the respect of its members ….or be deemed “past its sell by date”
    not suited for purpose….in a word “useless”

    Kamtan

    • Thinker  On 03/05/2014 at 12:51 am

      Let them decide WHAT? The Crimeans are Russians so they will go with Mother Russia. Kiev has decided that Ukranian is the only official language, a very foolish thing to do. If that is the case, Eastern Ukraine will probably go with Russia too. Putin is no fool. He has to protect his interests. After the EU, he probably expects Ukraine to become part of NATO and be right in his backyard. Ukraine has always been the breadbasket of Russia so food prices are going to rise for Russia with Ukraine in the EU. He can’t appear to look like a weakling before his own people.

      • de castro  On 03/05/2014 at 10:28 am

        Of course most Ukrainians will back Russia (Putin) in a free and fair
        elections …a win win situ for Putin and Russia.
        Democratically endorsed…then no “outsiders”
        can complain/argue. Putin is no fool !
        He knows what he has to do and will do it…regardless and good
        for him.

  • Abert  On 03/04/2014 at 3:08 pm

    Russia is going to pay dearly in the end. Firstly, it cannot afford to prolong this costly military move for a long time. It does not have the lavish financial resources as the west. It has oil, its major foreign currency earner, and some steel but no other major industrial enterprise. Visitors to Moscow or Stalingrad would be surprise at how undeveloped Russia still is, and how wealthy Russians flee westward. But they have a large army.
    Secondly, only the west, including the U.S. could provide the aid and other resources Ukraine needs. The western way of life and lavish lifestyle is a magnet to people in that region. Putin might have to blink in the end and find some middle ground with the west. He cannot offer Ukraine what the west could.

    • Thinker  On 03/05/2014 at 9:22 am

      They are still in Georgia and surviving quite nicely, thank you.

  • Rosaliene Bacchus  On 03/04/2014 at 5:04 pm

    War. Everywhere is war.

  • Cliff Thomas  On 03/04/2014 at 6:14 pm

    Putin is greedy, that is why he invaded Ukraine and he will lose more than he gains. He will end up like President Bush and Iraq. Too many lives were lost for nothing in that war including American soldiers and this was unnecessary.

    • de castro  On 03/04/2014 at 6:56 pm

      Cliff congratulations you have nailed it….well done.
      Hindsight teaches fools.
      Salud brother

    • Thinker  On 03/05/2014 at 12:54 am

      Cliff, Crimea is no Iraq. The Crimeans want Putin. Pick up a history book..

      • de castro  On 03/05/2014 at 10:04 am

        The world needs Putin regardless….he is doing a good job
        …remove him and we end up with a “military” dictatorship.
        Which is more a threat to world peace.?
        Stalin was a dictator not unlike Castro who followed.
        Stalin joined allies to defeat Hitler…Nazism.
        Spoils of war being exposed as “secrets” become declassified
        in time….the only war I support is the War on poverty and hunger.
        A JUST WAR
        Putin is a 21st century Stalinist…Russia needs strong leadership.

        Well done valdamir you have “guts” and “style”
        De martial arts black belt.

      • de castro  On 03/05/2014 at 10:41 am

        Much prefer a united Russia under Putin than a military dictatorship.
        Lesser of two necessary evils….threat to world peace.!! Armagideon..

  • de castro  On 03/04/2014 at 6:49 pm

    Sorry Rosaliene but “wars” are an economic evil we have to live
    with…..some cannot live without….war on poverty about the
    only war that is a “just” war.
    We have learnt little from history as we keep repeating the same
    mistakes over and over again….I share your “frustrations” but
    I never despair remaining forever the optimist.
    “Cold war” all over again.

    Albert
    Your assessment and comment above I must respond to….
    it is economic/military with little understanding of Putin s
    political dilemma. Put a rat in a corner and he will “retaliate”
    …that’s what rats do….apply the same rule to humans and you
    end up with same result.
    Question
    How to “destroy” the venomous creature “painted by west as Putin”..
    Starve it (economics)
    Kill it (military)

    There are rats in Cities living to the sizes of foxes….New York London
    even minus 40c Moscow…..remove PUTIN and he will be replaced
    with another. Rats are controlled by “poisoning” but even that never
    makes them extinct…..

    I remain optimistic that commonsense will prevail and a compromise
    reached….hopefully via UN. WW3 will never happen….at least not
    in my lifetime…loose loose situation for all.

    Yours truly
    Swiss kamtan ….neither for or against WAR

  • de castro  On 03/04/2014 at 6:54 pm

    Abert sorry I spelt your name incorrectly….but my tablet keeps prompting incorrect
    letters….yes its a “Google” tablet…ha ha ! American manufactured in China….
    sorry…
    Salud

    • Abert  On 03/04/2014 at 9:01 pm

      American manufactured in China. Now the real winner of all this hit me…..its China. The Russian currency was depreciated by a significant percent (don’t recall the real figure). China import about 40 percent of Russian oil. Notice how the Chinese are quiet while the US and Europe fight with Russia. Chinese global relationship remains intact and they will pay less for Russian oil. Germany may also benefit but the German Chancellor, I suspect, don’t think much of Putin. He was in the KGB when Russia did some nasty things to them, post WWII

  • de castro  On 03/04/2014 at 9:20 pm

    Ha ha…Merkel is no fool either. Allow the two “testorone driven males”
    to battle on…as long as cheaper oil keeps flowing….
    China and Germany “Asian and Europeans” both benefiting from
    the cheaper oil….Let’s see how “OPEC” reacts to these developments.
    Hopefully cheaper oil for everyone….
    We shall see….

  • walter  On 03/05/2014 at 12:29 am

    We finished saving Guyana?I missed the conclusion.Sorry

    • Thinker  On 03/05/2014 at 12:56 am

      Guyana will be saved when there Is a big enough Amerindian and Brazilian population. Coming relatively soon.

  • de castro  On 03/05/2014 at 1:30 am

    Go one further ….they are already there my friend….all that is needed
    now is the “infrastructure” road rail river link to GT….from
    East west and south…language the only “temporary” barrier.
    Maybe thats what Guyana needs….only time will tell.

  • guyaneseonline  On 03/05/2014 at 6:25 pm

    Ukraine and the ‘Little Cold War’
    Geopolitical Weekly Tuesday, March 4, 2014

    Read more: Ukraine and the ‘Little Cold War’ | Stratfor
    Follow us: @stratfor on Twitter | Stratfor on Facebook
    http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/ukraine-and-little-cold-war

    Editor’s Note: In place of George Friedman’s regular Geopolitical Weekly, this column is derived from two chapters of Friedman’s 2009 book, The Next 100 Years. We are running this abstract of the chapters that focused on Eastern Europe and Russia because the forecast — written in 2008 — is prescient in its anticipation of events unfolding today in Russia, Ukraine and Crimea.

    By George Friedman

    We must consider the future of Eurasia after the fall of the Soviet Union. Since 1991, the region has fragmented and decayed. The successor state to the Soviet Union, Russia, is emerging from this period with renewed self-confidence. Yet Russia is also in an untenable geopolitical position. Unless Russia exerts itself to create a sphere of influence, the Russian Federation could itself fragment.

    Read more: Ukraine and the ‘Little Cold War’ | Stratfor
    Follow us: @stratfor on Twitter | Stratfor on Facebook

    http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/ukraine-and-little-cold-war

    • Abert  On 03/06/2014 at 3:22 pm

      Its a good article consistent with what some other knowledgeable people on eastern affairs have said. I visited Russia about 3-4 years ago and was disappointed. They have a long interested history in which the poorer class suffered tremendously. All they have now really is oil and a large military. No other sound manufacturing base. Oil has a two edge sword: they are at the mercy of the buyers if, as likely, other nations step in to sell Europe. They cant even make a proper car. Often you see people on the road working on their broken down “Opel” The streets are congested, it takes a hell of a long time to travel a few blocks. The major means of travel is the underground railroad. Here there is a lot of security for fear of sabotage by terrorists. Knock that out and the area would come to a crawl. The food market in Stalingrad is worst than you see in some third world countries. Its like big market in Georgetown in the old days. Major foreign companies, like Toyota, only have a toenail in Russia, and every where you go people try to extract the American dollar by begging or wanting tips. If Putin is trying to resurrect Russia to its old glory days he needs a miracle.

      • de castro  On 03/06/2014 at 4:07 pm

        An honest and first had report of Russia today.
        However if Putin opens his doors to “outsiders”
        Euro Asia even Americas am sure what you experienced
        3/4 years ago can all change quite dramatically.
        When politricks takes priority over economics
        everyone looses….Germany and Japan may have lost
        the battles but they have won the war….both countries
        were “destroyed” after WW2 today they have not only
        “Rebuilt” there cities . they enjoy a very high standard of living…
        with a very robust middle class.
        ..WW2 was more a “political” “military” war
        WW3 is more an economic war.

        Hopefully a war on corruption and poverty.

        Russia will have to overcome these obstacles if it is to move
        forward…Putin’s dilemma.!!!
        My spin in total optimism.
        As for Guyana where corruption is endemic in its society
        that battle will take much longer.
        Sometimes I despair.
        Kamtan

  • de castro  On 03/05/2014 at 11:46 pm

    A pretty concise analysis “updated”…
    Certainly helps in understanding Putin’s dilemma.
    Devil you do devil you don’t.
    Thanks to guyaneseonline for these insightful contributions
    of a bit of Russian history…..it gives one a better understanding
    of the issues present.
    Salud

  • de castro  On 03/06/2014 at 4:29 pm

    Some of the most beautiful moscowvites were in southern Spain…
    when I first moved there on retirement…a decade ago.
    Putin’s ambassadors I joked….today I see them everywhere in Europe
    in my travels….even here in towns and cities in UK.
    Life in Russia was hell for them …Russian working class
    consume more vodka and iltreat their wives ….not different to the
    working classes in UK decade or so ago….
    Today new laws are having a dramatic change on attitudes.
    The climate can change “politically” overnight but “economically”
    it takes a little longer….stability breathes growth.
    My thesis…instability stagnates/destroys.
    Kamtan

    • Abert  On 03/07/2014 at 10:34 pm

      I will give you some great information on why Cameron is against any sanction on Russia, and like they say in the media, you read it here first. Great Britain has open the doors for Russian money, dirty or clean, and has some 2,000 wealthy Russians living there. They spend about 100 million pounds yearly, bought part ownership in a number of British interest: railroad, football club and the like. They buy fancy cars,they send their children to the best British private schools. Even the British petroleum gets about 6 percent of its profits from Russian sources. Britain has a system where gangsters or criminals from Russia could invest their money (British Virgin Island etc) for clean money in Britain. Could Cameron close the door on this kind of money because Russia took a piece of land far from England. A prostitute sell her body for money, Cameron only sell England.

      • de castro  On 03/07/2014 at 11:48 pm

        Abert
        “money talks” its the world in which we live..!!
        Cameron is a politician first….everything else after.
        Are you suggesting he asks all the Millionaires
        living in UK to leave tomorrow….4500 of richest on the
        planet with 30m or more now live here….or have HRH QE2
        to leave as she is one of the richest in UK.
        Get real my friend would you…..
        However if any of those who live here were
        caught evading/avoiding paying Taxes and Cameron
        was aware and did not prosecute them then he will
        have to answer for his actions….am sure the British
        media would not let him off the hook….
        We do have a free and may add hungry press here in UK
        that sometimes are OTT (over the top)…sensationalisation !

        And I certainly won’t pay for Cameron’s body…ha ha

  • Clyde Duncan  On 03/06/2014 at 8:23 pm

    I really wanted to stay away from this string, but to stir things up, I am compelled to introduce the concept of the ‘Monroe Doctrine’ – Vladimir Putin is invoking this concept in his backyard: Why is it different when they do it??

    • Rosaliene Bacchus  On 03/06/2014 at 11:36 pm

      Clyde, I have also refrained from sharing my two cents. Like you, I’ve wondered why it’s different when the Russians behave as they do. Guyana is still suffering from events following the suspension of its constitution in 1953 before it had gained independence. America could not tolerate another communist country in its backyard.

  • de castro  On 03/06/2014 at 10:10 pm

    Most people like Putin and as a Stalinist he shows strength and
    determination….on if you can trust him …that begs to question.
    He is a politician.!
    However one thing is certain.. he wants one united Russia.
    Almost a nationalist…
    The Chinese and Soviets have always supported/helped each other
    In the past…but the world has changed …moved on…will that
    change their “cosy” relationship….only time will tell..
    With money even brothers kill each other…
    Why did Kane kill Abel.!!
    …I try not to follow the media but sometimes its unavoidable….
    they offer messages but are not the messenger.
    No more on the subject now.
    RIP

  • de castro  On 03/07/2014 at 12:29 am

    Clyde
    You made me Google “Monroe Doctrine” and read it all over again.
    Hey that was 1823 …its now 2014…sorry but I try not to go back
    too far in my readings….
    However I do feel very strongly that AMERICA should be more careful
    on giving advice or taking sides in matters non american….
    or they end up with egg in their face.
    China has been silent , even Europe , and its only UK s Cameron
    that is supportive of involvement in Putin’s internal matters.
    Both Cameron and Obama are a bit naive or ill advised.

    Putin’s popularity will only improve now.

    Rosaliene
    Today we know how Cheddi was cheated out of power
    in the “conspiracy” of Mac Million and Kennedy…
    only to be replaced by an educated bully and a thug.
    One should never trust politicians….or politricks.
    Fools in their paradise of power…

    The pen is mightier than the sword….write on….

  • Clyde Duncan  On 03/07/2014 at 2:55 am

    Rosaliene aptly described how the Monroe Doctrine was applied in British Guiana during the 1950’s and 1960’s. The Embargo of Cuba is another example.

  • Abert  On 03/07/2014 at 4:25 am

    There is one crucial point missing. Why does America trade fully with socialist China (if one could call it socialist) or even Russia but not with Cuba? Why does America go after terrorists but give residency to the terrorist who placed a bomb and killed those young Guyanese in that Havana bound plane. I could go on and on but the point is countries are not people. They all have double standards, in that they do what is perceived to be in their countries interest. Killing people is immoral yet countries send their agents to kill agents in foreign countries they think poses a threat to them. America consider Russia a threat. What you do to those who threaten you? Think of Israel and Iran.

  • de castro  On 03/07/2014 at 6:31 am

    A bit of history answers your question my friend…
    Stalin assisted Chinese post WW2 in Korea with
    MIG Fighters using RR rolls Royce engines copied
    from one Churchill gave to Stalin as a reward for
    Stalin s support against Hitler.
    Chinese and soviets “special relationship” is not
    much different to the “special relationship” USA UK
    Obama Cameron….economically politically but not
    religiously….one should never forsake ones friends
    especially in war.
    Chinese silence is deafening….let Putin and Merkel do the talking
    with Obama and Cameron sidelined for their naivety ill advised diplomacy.

    The last thing China wishes for is a united Europe with Russia
    included….what will they do with all those USD they have stockpiled
    Better topay for oil in USD than in EUROS.
    WARS are fought more for economic than political reasons.

    Remain focused on “reasons” rather than “results” and the only just war
    will be one on corruption and poverty.

    • Rosaliene Bacchus  On 03/07/2014 at 5:11 pm

      “Remain focused on “reasons” rather than “results” and the only just war
      will be one on corruption and poverty.”
      I share your sentiments, Kamtan.

  • Clyde Duncan  On 03/07/2014 at 7:41 am

    I just recalled the odious event about 40-years ago, September 11, at that – the murder of Salvador Allende. I recalled telling a friend in 2001, the old folks always say, “Wha’ miss ya don’t pass ya?” This is another event that had a lot to do with the Monroe Doctrine: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/09/11/pers-s11.html

    • Abert  On 03/07/2014 at 3:17 pm

      Again on the Monroe doctrine………what about the invasion of Grenada and removal of Bishop by cowboy Regan. The bold face lie was that Soviet Russia was secretly building an airstrip in Grenada to accommodate heavy bombers. The comical part was that there were American students studying the U.S. medical school in that country who jogged regularly on the unfinished airstrip. I think however that political idea (the Monroe doctrine) has become exhausted. Too many worrisome socialist wannaby countries in the region, including Peru, and Venezuela. They have exhausted American resources.

      • Thinker  On 03/08/2014 at 1:48 pm

        It wasn’t Reagan who removed Bishop. Austin killed him first.

  • de castro  On 03/07/2014 at 10:45 am

    Clyde
    I consider myself lucky to have had a girlfriend from Chile in the 80s
    in London….she was a refugee after Allende was replaced by the military dictator Pinoche…some of her stories she took to her grave….
    Thanks for the reminder of how “uninformed” most of the public are
    on matters that have changed our world forever….will we ever learn
    by not repeating mistakes of past….doubt it !

  • guyaneseonline  On 03/07/2014 at 8:26 pm

    God Bless Putin!
    Israel and Ukraine
    by URI AVNERY
    BINYAMIN NETANYAHU is very good at making speeches, especially to Jews, neocons and such, who jump up and applaud wildly at everything he says, including that tomorrow the sun will rise in the west.

    The question is: is he good at anything else?

    HIS FATHER, an ultra-ultra-Rightist, once said about him that he is quite unfit to be prime minister, but that he could be a good foreign minister. What he meant was that Binyamin does not have the depth of understanding needed to guide the nation, but that he is good at selling any policy decided upon by a real leader. Read more at:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/07/israel-and-ukraine/print

  • de castro  On 03/07/2014 at 9:26 pm

    Interesting prognosis…with historical reference.
    The good that Putin does will live after him
    The bad buried with his bones
    A 21st century Caesar in the making. Et tu Brutae !

    We shall see….

  • Clyde Duncan  On 03/08/2014 at 5:06 pm

    I would like to extend my thanks to Cyril Bryan for making this ‘Conversation Tree’ available to us and, I further commend the participants on this string for your stimuli, questions, insightful comments and input on the subject matter in caption; your opinions and ‘reasons’ for what is going on in the Ukraine is fabulous and informative. I believe, if one reads from top to bottom on this string, every one of us should have a better understanding of this conflict than if we relied on a single source. I believe, collectively, we are better informed on this subject than the person in the street who is relying on a single source for their updates.

    As they say, the public is made up of the uninformed; the intentionally misinformed; and the naïve. We, on this blog, on this subject are ahead of the public, I believe.

    Let’s cut to the chase: I was listening to Prof. Nina Khrushcheva, grand-daughter of Nikita Khrushchev, the man who handed Crimea over to Ukraine for free. Vladimir Putin is taking Crimea back under the control of Russia. Crimea is not going back to Ukraine. Putin does not want a war, but he is not backing down. He believes he has the support of about 60-percent of Crimea, so the only option the West has is to negotiate how Crimea will stay Russian – that’s my take. Read on: http://english.pravda.ru/history/19-02-2009/107129-ussr_crimea_ukraine-0/

    • Rosaliene Bacchus  On 03/08/2014 at 6:12 pm

      Thanks for sharing that link, Clyde. The Russia-Ukraine conflict is much more complex than we-the-general-public in the West realize. We have a long history of demonizing communists.

      I agree with you, this exchange has been valuable in better understanding this conflict.

      • Abert  On 03/09/2014 at 3:45 am

        I heard what must have been the same interview by the grand daughter of Nikita Khrushchev on MSNBC. I agree with her. The taking of Crimea by Putin is a done deal. Russia did the same thing with Georgia a few years back and still holds the section it took by force. Condi Rice, under George Bush, threatened to extend the installation of the nuclear defensive shield to cover Poland. Something the Russians had vehemently protested before. If Putin and Russia escape without paying a` price for this incursion some other bordering country would be next.

  • de castro  On 03/08/2014 at 10:18 pm

    Funny how the interest in Russia is in the headlines….
    In my opinion Gorbechov was one of the best presidents of Russia.
    Replaced by Boris Yeltsin a vodkaholic….he moved Russia towards
    democracy ending the “cold war”…friend of Reagan movie star actor
    cum president of USA….he did win the Nobel prize for peace…
    now we are told Putin wishes to “re-incarnate” cold war….

    Recommendation

    Google presidents of Russia ..from Stalin to Putin before deciding
    on who you feel Putin’s mentor is/should be.

    Kamtan

  • Abert  On 03/09/2014 at 3:23 am

    “………..who you feel Putin’s mentor is/should be.” This would be difficult considering the times each governed. Before visiting Russia I took an online course on the history of Russia: “Peter the Great to Gorbachev” by Professor Mark Steinberg of the University of Illinois. Russia has a long, complex history full of changes. I end more confused in the end than when I started. I am sure you know much about the turning point of WW2 when Hitler attempted to invade Russia and his armies were defeated at Stalingrad with Stalin as head of the Russian military. Now that access has been given to Russian war documents by western writers, Stalin is shown to be much less than the military hero we taught he was. That aspect of military history is really different and more complex than originally told.

  • de castro  On 03/09/2014 at 7:03 am

    “History” written by victors
    “Real history” should be written by the “vanquished”..loosers.

    Will Putin and Russia re-possess Eastern euroland by military
    occupation. Doubt it…..my response to the Georgia issue.
    Putin is no fool ..he enjoys “confrontation” and is a “pragmatist”
    He would be as hated as Hitler was until his suicidal end.

    Stalin was a traitor and so was Hitler….neither could be trusted.
    (Military mentality) power mad….
    Politicians not far behind.
    Then comes the greeedy and corrupt bankers corporate ….

    Hence my quotation of William S Julius Caesar.
    in reference to Putin.
    Et tu Brutae….Caesar was warned of “ides of march”

    Not wishing to stray from subject …..what we are experiencing
    is history repeating itself….history of a fools paradise.
    Will Putin and Russia re-conquer the world !
    Will the powers that be allow it.
    WW3 of Armagdeon…doubt it.!

    Pragmatically optimist…let WW3 be one on corruption and poverty
    My spin
    Kamtan…Hitlers mistake fighting war on two fronts East West.

  • guyaneseonline  On 03/09/2014 at 7:23 am

    Thanks to everyone for making this an interesting discussion .. at a high level.
    Here is a video documentary on Crimea and the upcoming referendum on March 16, that may be of interest …

    https://guyaneseonline.wordpress.com/2014/03/09/great-expectations-crimean-referendum-rt-documentary/

  • de castro  On 03/09/2014 at 8:19 am

    Abert
    Disagree….don’t think Putin or Russia has any intention of retaking any
    territory ceded to euro land democratically after Goberchov initiative.
    End “cold war” …neither does he wish to conquer the world.
    Hitler one of his many mentors. Stalin betrayed Hitler and visa versa.
    Both can be described as “fanatics” in today’s political climate.
    Hindsight teaches fools.
    So does history …but should we repeat the mistakes of history and
    remains fools in our paradise of life.!!no siree…certainly not.

    • Abert  On 03/09/2014 at 4:00 pm

      Kamtan
      Not sure I know what you disagree with. Enjoyed the discussion with you and the Guyanese folks but have to move on from this topic. Listened to experts on Russia (GPS…. CNN) and even they disagree. Too much we don’t know.
      ——————————————————————————————————
      Would love to be engage on a discussion of online trading on U.S. stock market which could help my countrymen improve ways of making money in America. One problem is that its a subject with a necessary learning curve and too much of the basics to explain. I hope Cyril or someone could get hold of an article to start a thread, if there is an appetite for this topic, and we could go from there.

  • Thinker  On 03/09/2014 at 2:48 pm

    There is absolutely no evidence that Hitler is one of Putin’s mentors The question in itself is irrelevant. Putin is acting to get leverage for eventual discussions with Ukraine and the expanding West.

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